Verilog · Beginners · Hiring: remote verilog-newbie engineer (full-time, long-term)

513
VEr/verilog-newbie·posted by zhu_zong·6 hours agoTutorial

Hiring: remote verilog-newbie engineer (full-time, long-term)

Most verilog-newbie articles stop at "how to use it" and never cover "when not to use it". This is an attempt at the second half.

One last trap: in container environments remember to adjust the memory-related parameters in step. Otherwise the host limit and the process expectation disagree, and the symptom is intermittent, unreproducible failure.

Keep it and wait for an official fix44%
Switch to a third-party option now28%
Fork and maintain it ourselves17%
Write an adapter layer and wait11%

872 votes total

215 comments

215 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

519
Kkite·just now

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

493
Llinlin·1 hour ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

475
WwinterOP·1 hour ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

403
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

371
Hhuang_ke·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

162
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

11
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

42
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

152
Bbob_chen·28 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

23
Ttang_hao·just now

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

217
Oops_wangMod·3 minutes agoedited

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

301
Wwinter·28 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

234
Rran_boOP·12 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

97
Sslow_queryOP·yesterday

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

74
RraseOPMod·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

125
Rran_bo·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

180
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

4
Ttang_hao·28 minutes ago

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

196
Rrase·2 days agoedited

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

273
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

457
Wwinter·2 days ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

256
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

409
Llinlin·28 minutes agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

406
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

403
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

361
Sswoole_leeOP·yesterday

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

287
Llinlin·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

10
Rran_bo·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

173
Hhuang_keOP·2 days ago

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

429
Lli_ming·2 days ago

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

36
Wwinter·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

18
Wwinter·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

2
Sswoole_leeOP·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

256
Sslow_queryMod·2 days ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

323
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

310
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

304
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

303
Nnikic·2 days ago

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

295
Cchen_dev·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

290
Bbob_chenMod·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

78
Rran_bo·2 days ago

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

200
Lli_ming·yesterday

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

7
Oops_wangMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

54
Aalice_dev·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

2
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

270
Nnikic·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

110
Llinlin·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

6
NnikicOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

276
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

70
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

5
Rran_bo·2 hours ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

259
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

256
Kkite·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

253
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

245
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

233
Wwinter·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

228
Llinlin·12 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

218
Hhuang_keOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

111
Oops_wang·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

15
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

164
Rran_bo·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

143
Wwinter·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

413
Kkite·5 hours agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

61
Ttang_hao·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

9
Rran_bo·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

188
Kkite·2 days ago

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

123
Hhuang_ke·3 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

119
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

73
Ddev_zhou·12 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

68
Mmike_xu·1 hour ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

43
Sswoole_lee·just nowedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

491
Wwinter·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

1
Mmike_xuOP·2 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

63
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

359
Kkite·2 days agoedited

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Bbob_chen·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

295
Sslow_query·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

14
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

351
Kkite·3 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

74
Rrase·5 hours ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

49
Sslow_queryOP·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

456
Kkernel_panicOP·28 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

16
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoLevel 6

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

379
Aalice_dev·28 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

26
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

2
Sslow_query·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

420
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

348
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoLevel 6

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

451
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

203
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoeditedLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

397
Hhuang_ke·12 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

25
Kkernel_panic·2 days agoLevel 6

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

152
Llinlin·2 days agoLevel 6

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

4
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

This is not a verilog-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

13
Rran_bo·2 hours ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

5
Wwinter·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

59
Lli_ming·just now

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

45
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

39
Llinlin·2 days ago

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

338
Nnikic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

55
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

226
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

91
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

3
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I just read the verilog-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

95
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

31
Rran_bo·5 hours ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

21
Rrase·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

19
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

56
Wwinter·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

314
Kkite·2 days ago

One counter-example: below verilog-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

11
Rran_bo·yesterday

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

8
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

8
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

8
Cchen_dev·5 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

5
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

2
Llinlin·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

69
Nnikic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1

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