Turborepo · Job board · Interview notes: how I answered a question about the turborepo-jobs concurrency model

916
TUr/turborepo-jobs·posted by dev_zhou·yesterdayTutorial

Interview notes: how I answered a question about the turborepo-jobs concurrency model

It took me two weeks of on-and-off digging and plenty of wrong turns. Writing the process down as it happened so the next person spends less time.

The first thing was to collapse the variables. We were changing config and upgrading the version at the same time, and afterwards nobody could say which change caused what. We rolled back to moving one variable at a time, re-ran three times, and only then did the curve settle. Tedious, but not skippable.

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155 comments

155 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

504
Sslow_query·just now

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

459
Bbob_chen·yesterday

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

443
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

440
Sswoole_leeOP·28 minutes agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

321
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

377
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

331
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

311
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

344
Lli_mingOP·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

247
Llinlin·3 minutes ago

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

306
Rran_bo·yesterday

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

285
Mmike_xu·3 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

277
Kkite·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

65
Rrase·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

3
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

2
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

228
Rran_bo·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

216
Oops_wang·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

214
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

170
Sslow_query·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

158
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

1
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

317
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

140
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

60
NnikicMod·yesterday

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

203
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

211
Llinlin·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

17
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

2
Ttang_hao·28 minutes ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

66
Kkernel_panicOP·3 minutes agoedited

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

60
Llinlin·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

63
Aalice_devOP·28 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

45
Kkernel_panicOP·28 minutes ago

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

44
Hhuang_ke·3 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

2
Lli_mingOP·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

112
Kkernel_panic·2 hours ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

152
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

289
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

129
Llinlin·2 days ago

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

250
Wwinter·12 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

109
Rrase·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

20
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

69
Lli_ming·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

441
Llinlin·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

11
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

102
Bbob_chenOP·28 minutes agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

25
Cchen_dev·28 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

505
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

413
Wwinter·just now

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

95
Lli_mingMod·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

97
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

80
Nnikic·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

36
Kkite·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

15
Cchen_dev·1 hour ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

11
Aalice_dev·12 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

380
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

304
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoedited

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

41
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

3
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

153
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Zzhou_yi·3 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

82
Lli_ming·28 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

5
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

81
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

80
Rrase·2 days ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

78
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

17
Ttang_hao·1 hour ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

75
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

18
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

26
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

71
Sslow_query·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

394
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

26
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

67
Kkite·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

54
Kkite·2 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

53
Wwinter·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

355
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

52
Wwinter·28 minutes agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

44
Sslow_query·1 hour ago

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

32
Mmike_xu·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

105
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

235
Ttang_hao·just now

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

2
Sswoole_lee·3 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

130
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

20
Ttang_hao·yesterday

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

69
Sswoole_leeOP·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

37
Ttang_hao·12 minutes agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Kkite·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

412
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

1
Sswoole_leeOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

185
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

203
Oops_wang·2 days agoLevel 6

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

2
Ddev_zhou·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

200
Oops_wang·2 days agoLevel 6

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

243
Kkite·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

30
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

122
Aalice_dev·2 days agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

27
Llinlin·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

69
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

348
Nnikic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

63
Rrase·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

43
Cchen_devMod·2 days ago

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

100
Mmike_xu·2 days agoedited

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

104
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

13
Aalice_dev·5 hours ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

205
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

30
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

25
Bbob_chen·12 minutes agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

17
Nnikic·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

13
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

9
KkiteMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

248
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

34
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

One counter-example: below turborepo-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

6
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoedited

This is not a turborepo-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

5
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

2
Sswoole_lee·3 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Zzhou_yi·1 hour agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Bbob_chen·5 hours ago

I just read the turborepo-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

1
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1

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