tmux · Advanced · Newbie question: how should a tmux-pro config file be organised?

529
TMr/tmux-pro·posted by li_ming·3 hours agoDiscussion

Newbie question: how should a tmux-pro config file be organised?

Short version: tmux-pro needs almost no tuning at small and medium scale — the point where it starts to hurt is much further out than most people assume. Full measurements below.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

What genuinely surprised me was the tail. The average looked great while P99 jumped by an order of magnitude past some threshold. The cause was not tmux-pro itself but our upstream connection reuse — the load test traffic was too clean and hid the long-tail requests.

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

We also fixed monitoring along the way: replaced average-based alerts with percentiles and split them per endpoint. False alerts dropped by about seventy percent and the on-call rotation visibly cheered up.

111 comments

111 comments

M
Rran_bo·just now

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

508
Ddev_zhou·5 hours ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

502
Llinlin·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

483
Nnikic·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

250
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

476
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

462
Mmike_xu·2 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

189
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

325
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

288
Llinlin·3 minutes ago

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

487
Oops_wang·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

55
Oops_wangMod·yesterday

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

28
Kkite·2 days agoedited

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

244
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

160
Rrase·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

155
Rrase·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

96
Llinlin·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

38
Zzhu_zong·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

174
Oops_wang·2 hours ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

5
Rrase·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

466
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

455
Llinlin·2 days ago

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

8
Oops_wang·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

441
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

417
Rrase·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

414
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

404
Nnikic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

403
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

246
Ttang_hao·2 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

77
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

18
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

12
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

448
Bbob_chen·3 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

389
Sslow_queryOPMod·3 minutes agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

312
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

366
Sslow_query·2 days agoedited

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

50
Ddev_zhou·28 minutes agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

365
Sslow_query·12 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

4
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

355
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

432
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

303
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

265
Kkernel_panicOP·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

204
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

225
Wwinter·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

299
Ddev_zhouMod·12 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

210
Llinlin·28 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

376
Rrase·12 minutes ago

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

472
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

187
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

468
Nnikic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

202
Rran_bo·2 days agoedited

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

171
Sswoole_lee·12 minutes ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

159
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

147
Rrase·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

9
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

392
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

289
Sslow_query·yesterday

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

233
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

27
Mmike_xu·2 days agoLevel 6

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

31
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

135
Llinlin·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

131
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

127
Sswoole_leeOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

67
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

137
Rran_bo·12 minutes agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

90
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

126
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

78
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

65
Zzhu_zong·3 minutes agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

55
Oops_wang·3 minutes agoedited

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

63
Oops_wang·1 hour ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

288
Nnikic·5 hours ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

448
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a tmux-pro problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

433
Lli_mingOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

220
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

478
Lli_ming·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

472
Ttang_haoOP·yesterday

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

33
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

58
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

4
Kkite·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

496
Kkite·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

76
Sslow_query·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Rran_bo·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

51
Wwinter·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

90
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

28
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

246
Cchen_dev·2 hours ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

14
Sswoole_lee·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

451
Kkite·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

398
Lli_mingOP·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

248
Cchen_dev·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

99
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

61
Zzhou_yi·yesterday

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

450
Rran_boMod·2 days ago

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

398
Sswoole_lee·3 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

100
Ddev_zhouMod·5 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

12
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

11
Zzhou_yi·12 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

10
Kkite·2 days ago

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

8
KkiteOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

50
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

6
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

4
Hhuang_ke·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

2
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I just read the tmux-pro source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

3
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

110
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below tmux-pro 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Zzhou_yiMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

207
Sswoole_lee·just now

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

1

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