Tableau · Code review · Discussion: is the tableau-review ecosystem being replaced by another stack?

760
TAr/tableau-review·posted by huang_ke·3 hours agoJobs

Discussion: is the tableau-review ecosystem being replaced by another stack?

Short version: tableau-review needs almost no tuning at small and medium scale — the point where it starts to hurt is much further out than most people assume. Full measurements below.

One last trap: in container environments remember to adjust the memory-related parameters in step. Otherwise the host limit and the process expectation disagree, and the symptom is intermittent, unreproducible failure.

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105 comments

105 comments

M
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

515
Aalice_dev·1 hour ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

507
Cchen_dev·yesterday

I just read the tableau-review source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

498
Kkite·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

2
Ttang_haoOP·2 hours ago

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

437
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

426
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

311
Mmike_xu·yesterday

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

47
Wwinter·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

155
Kkernel_panic·3 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

454
Lli_ming·1 hour ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

324
Cchen_dev·28 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

10
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

28
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

449
Lli_ming·5 hours ago

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

444
Rran_bo·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

438
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

320
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

378
Llinlin·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

373
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

367
Rran_bo·28 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

267
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

450
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

81
Oops_wang·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

141
Zzhu_zong·28 minutes agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

464
Ddev_zhou·2 days agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

45
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

7
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

22
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

3
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

504
Hhuang_ke·just nowLevel 6

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

458
Rran_bo·2 days agoLevel 6

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

6
Rrase·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

445
Lli_ming·2 days agoLevel 6

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

79
Rran_boMod·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

122
Ttang_hao·28 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

403
Llinlin·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

7
Zzhou_yi·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

356
Oops_wang·12 minutes agoedited

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

337
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

306
Kkernel_panic·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

283
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

259
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

192
KkiteOP·3 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

182
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

234
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

225
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

204
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

I just read the tableau-review source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

193
Sswoole_leeOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

26
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

157
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

41
Ddev_zhouOP·5 hours ago

I just read the tableau-review source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

100
Lli_ming·1 hour ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

143
Nnikic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

81
Rran_boMod·just now

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

140
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

140
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

I just read the tableau-review source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

72
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

60
Cchen_dev·just now

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

114
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

105
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

102
Mmike_xuOP·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

27
Ddev_zhouOP·12 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

18
Nnikic·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

75
Sswoole_lee·yesterday

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

71
Rrase·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

63
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

60
Sslow_query·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

46
Lli_mingOP·2 days ago

I just read the tableau-review source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

64
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

120
Lli_ming·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

306
Sswoole_lee·3 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

21
Rran_bo·just now

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

327
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

339
Lli_ming·28 minutes agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

334
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

194
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

112
Llinlin·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

77
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

2
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

27
Aalice_dev·yesterday

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

1
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

22
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

238
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

1
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

114
Nnikic·2 days ago

One counter-example: below tableau-review 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

53
Kkernel_panicOP·2 days agoLevel 6

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

21
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

44
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

100
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoLevel 6

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

39
Rrase·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

23
Sswoole_lee·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

14
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

57
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

14
Hhuang_ke·just now

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

8
Wwinter·2 days ago

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

7
Rrase·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

5
Rrase·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

2
Sswoole_lee·3 minutes ago

This is not a tableau-review problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Ddev_zhou·3 minutes agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

454
Sslow_queryMod·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

51
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

15
Rrase·2 hours ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

I just read the tableau-review source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

1

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