Polars · Beginners · Choosing polars-newbie: I turned 5 options into a side-by-side comparison

530
POr/polars-newbie·posted by ops_wang·yesterdayTranslation

Choosing polars-newbie: I turned 5 options into a side-by-side comparison

Some background first. Our setup is polars-newbie plus three downstream services, seven figures of daily requests, peaking around nine in the evening.

We also fixed monitoring along the way: replaced average-based alerts with percentiles and split them per endpoint. False alerts dropped by about seventy percent and the on-call rotation visibly cheered up.

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

One last trap: in container environments remember to adjust the memory-related parameters in step. Otherwise the host limit and the process expectation disagree, and the symptom is intermittent, unreproducible failure.

The first thing was to collapse the variables. We were changing config and upgrading the version at the same time, and afterwards nobody could say which change caused what. We rolled back to moving one variable at a time, re-ran three times, and only then did the curve settle. Tedious, but not skippable.

57 comments

57 comments

M
Zzhu_zong·just nowedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

463
Wwinter·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

451
Kkernel_panic·1 hour ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

440
Kkite·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

431
Kkite·just now

This is not a polars-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

374
Lli_ming·12 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

169
Rran_bo·1 hour agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

471
WwinterOP·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

410
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

48
Cchen_devMod·28 minutes ago

One counter-example: below polars-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

404
Hhuang_ke·12 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

348
Sslow_queryOP·just now

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

19
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

355
Lli_ming·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below polars-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

197
Rrase·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

4
Lli_ming·2 days agoLevel 6

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

19
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Lli_ming·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

129
Ttang_haoOP·3 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

2
Ttang_hao·12 minutes agoedited

This is not a polars-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

245
Aalice_dev·2 hours ago

I just read the polars-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

30
Rran_bo·28 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1
Nnikic·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Wwinter·2 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

345
NnikicOP·2 days ago

I just read the polars-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

277
Hhuang_keMod·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

321
Nnikic·3 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

302
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes ago

I just read the polars-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

196
Kkernel_panicOP·3 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

69
Kkite·3 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

1
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

128
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

115
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

106
Sslow_query·2 hours ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

104
Rran_bo·3 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

327
Hhuang_ke·just nowedited

I just read the polars-newbie source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

102
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

This is not a polars-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

98
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

90
Aalice_dev·2 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

437
Lli_ming·2 hours ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

45
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

20
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

69
Aalice_dev·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

60
Ddev_zhou·5 hours ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

46
Nnikic·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

24
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

14
Cchen_dev·12 minutes ago

This is not a polars-newbie problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

3
Nnikic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

9
Nnikic·12 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

70
Hhuang_ke·3 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

7
NnikicOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

192
Hhuang_ke·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

112
Mmike_xu·12 minutes ago

One counter-example: below polars-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

3
Hhuang_ke·12 minutes ago

One counter-example: below polars-newbie 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

2
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

455
Oops_wang·12 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

10
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

1

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