Open Source · Blog · This open-source-blog bug hid for three years before anyone reported it

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OSr/open-source-blog·posted by chen_dev·3 days agoTooling

This open-source-blog bug hid for three years before anyone reported it

Short version: open-source-blog needs almost no tuning at small and medium scale — the point where it starts to hurt is much further out than most people assume. Full measurements below.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

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309 comments

309 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Rrase·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

499
Oops_wang·yesterday

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

489
Wwinter·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

518
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

306
Llinlin·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

498
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

266
Mmike_xu·yesterday

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

57
Wwinter·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

276
Lli_ming·2 days agoLevel 6

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

90
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

380
Rran_bo·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

192
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

88
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

56
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

53
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

481
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

462
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

460
Oops_wang·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

70
RraseMod·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

188
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

71
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

18
Mmike_xuOP·12 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

350
Llinlin·12 minutes ago

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

73
Rrase·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

61
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

10
Llinlin·3 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1
Ttang_hao·12 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

34
Rran_bo·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

109
Hhuang_ke·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

45
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

199
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

17
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

92
Rrase·just now

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

12
Sswoole_lee·just now

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

360
Aalice_devOP·2 days ago

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

1
Mmike_xu·yesterday

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

280
Mmike_xu·3 minutes ago

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

359
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

6
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

127
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

1
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

368
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

350
Rran_boMod·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

86
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

119
LlinlinMod·12 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

312
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

239
Bbob_chen·just now

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

280
Cchen_dev·2 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

275
Llinlin·5 hours agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

207
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

119
Wwinter·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

85
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

217
Zzhou_yi·1 hour agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

208
Nnikic·12 minutes ago

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

189
Kkernel_panicOP·12 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

1
Wwinter·2 days ago

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

316
Mmike_xu·3 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

4
Kkite·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

296
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

424
Rrase·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

67
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

3
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoLevel 6

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

130
Ttang_hao·2 days agoedited

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

13
Bbob_chen·2 days agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

185
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

374
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

331
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

8
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

120
Bbob_chenMod·2 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

60
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

4
Nnikic·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

180
Rran_bo·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

25
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

332
Rran_boOP·3 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

100
Llinlin·1 hour ago

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

374
Ddev_zhou·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

29
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

15
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

147
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

123
Rrase·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

120
Llinlin·2 days ago

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

109
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

65
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

5
Cchen_devOP·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

3
Zzhou_yiOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

2
Ttang_hao·2 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

62
Aalice_dev·28 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

51
Hhuang_ke·12 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

44
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

40
Hhuang_ke·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

32
Bbob_chen·just now

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

31
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

13
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

29
Bbob_chenMod·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

173
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

11
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Kkite·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

7
Llinlin·2 days ago

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

4
Sswoole_leeMod·2 days agoLevel 6

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

78
Sslow_query·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

6
Kkite·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

31
Kkite·12 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

28
Oops_wang·3 minutes agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

414
Oops_wangOP·2 days ago

I just read the open-source-blog source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

36
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

89
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

42
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

16
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

14
Rran_bo·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

13
Lli_ming·2 days ago

One counter-example: below open-source-blog 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

308
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

15
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

This is not a open-source-blog problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

13
Kkite·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

11
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

8
Wwinter·28 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

6
Llinlin·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

4
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

3
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

3
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

1
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1

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