NixOS · Toolchain · I upgraded our production nixos-tools and hit these 11 landmines

727
NIr/nixos-tools·posted by bob_chen·2 hours agoTutorialLocked

I upgraded our production nixos-tools and hit these 11 landmines

Some background first. Our setup is nixos-tools plus three downstream services, seven figures of daily requests, peaking around nine in the evening.

// Minimal reproduction: you must use a real long-tail distribution here.
// Uniform load-test traffic will never trigger this.
func (s *Server) handle(ctx context.Context) error {
    conn, err := s.pool.Acquire(ctx)
    if err != nil {
        return fmt.Errorf("acquire: %w", err)
    }
    defer conn.Release()

    return s.do(ctx, conn)
}

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

What genuinely surprised me was the tail. The average looked great while P99 jumped by an order of magnitude past some threshold. The cause was not nixos-tools itself but our upstream connection reuse — the load test traffic was too clean and hid the long-tail requests.

One last trap: in container environments remember to adjust the memory-related parameters in step. Otherwise the host limit and the process expectation disagree, and the symptom is intermittent, unreproducible failure.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

166 comments

166 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Rran_bo·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

514
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

504
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

83
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

461
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

399
Zzhu_zong·yesterday

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

435
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

367
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

304
Hhuang_keMod·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

360
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

352
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

345
Oops_wang·2 days agoedited

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

344
RraseMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

41
Aalice_devOP·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

282
Lli_ming·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

296
Nnikic·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

285
Llinlin·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

281
Kkite·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

241
Rrase·28 minutes ago

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

16
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

12
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

231
Aalice_devOP·12 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

244
KkiteMod·28 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

56
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

129
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

223
Lli_ming·2 days ago

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

2
Aalice_devOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

55
Lli_ming·2 days agoLevel 6

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

88
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

32
Kkernel_panicOP·2 days agoLevel 6

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

2
Oops_wang·1 hour ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

172
Kkite·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

399
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

153
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

74
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

216
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

209
Zzhou_yiOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

267
Sswoole_lee·1 hour ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

208
Kkite·yesterday

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

199
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

3
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

171
Zzhou_yi·12 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

163
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

360
Ttang_haoMod·just nowedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

159
Sswoole_leeMod·yesterday

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

379
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

358
Ttang_hao·5 hours agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

156
KkiteOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

88
Wwinter·28 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

147
Oops_wangMod·just now

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

317
Cchen_dev·yesterday

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

319
Rran_bo·yesterday

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

8
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

6
Oops_wang·1 hour ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

254
Aalice_dev·just now

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

385
Mmike_xu·12 minutes ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

251
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

508
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

304
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

382
Rran_bo·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

296
Oops_wangOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

83
Llinlin·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

46
Lli_mingOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

16
WwinterOP·2 days agoLevel 6

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

56
Llinlin·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

45
Lli_ming·2 days agoLevel 6

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

149
Llinlin·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

19
Sslow_query·3 minutes ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

84
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

81
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

1
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

19
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

148
Kkernel_panicMod·2 days ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

138
Llinlin·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

127
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

118
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

97
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

31
Mmike_xu·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

69
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

14
Rran_bo·1 hour ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

67
Rran_boOP·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

426
Mmike_xu·yesterday

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

4
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

66
Kkernel_panic·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

59
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

39
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

54
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

52
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

1
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

48
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

33
Kkite·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

17
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

1
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

275
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

98
Lli_ming·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

58
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

32
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

15
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

52
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

12
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

11
Sslow_query·just now

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

328
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

140
Oops_wang·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

174
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

8
Zzhu_zong·5 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

18
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

6
Oops_wang·1 hour agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

72
Cchen_devMod·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

4
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I just read the nixos-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

8
Rrase·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

499
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

1
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

490
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a nixos-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

207
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

154
Sslow_queryOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

208
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

263
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

258
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

32
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

1
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

One counter-example: below nixos-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1

This is the post detail page /en/c/nixos-tools/post/p5. Posts and comments are generated deterministically from a seeded PRNG, so the same post always renders the same content and the link can be shared, reloaded and indexed. In production this page reads MySQL for the post, Redis for hot-post caching, and fetches the whole comment tree in a single query on the path column.

See the database schema →