Llamaindex · Toolchain · Postmortem: how we exhausted the connection pool in llamaindex-tools

266
LLr/llamaindex-tools·posted by bob_chen·5 minutes agoPostmortem

Postmortem: how we exhausted the connection pool in llamaindex-tools

It took me two weeks of on-and-off digging and plenty of wrong turns. Writing the process down as it happened so the next person spends less time.

// Minimal reproduction: you must use a real long-tail distribution here.
// Uniform load-test traffic will never trigger this.
func (s *Server) handle(ctx context.Context) error {
    conn, err := s.pool.Acquire(ctx)
    if err != nil {
        return fmt.Errorf("acquire: %w", err)
    }
    defer conn.Release()

    return s.do(ctx, conn)
}

The first thing was to collapse the variables. We were changing config and upgrading the version at the same time, and afterwards nobody could say which change caused what. We rolled back to moving one variable at a time, re-ran three times, and only then did the curve settle. Tedious, but not skippable.

What genuinely surprised me was the tail. The average looked great while P99 jumped by an order of magnitude past some threshold. The cause was not llamaindex-tools itself but our upstream connection reuse — the load test traffic was too clean and hid the long-tail requests.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

111 comments

111 comments

M
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

507
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

462
Rran_boOP·2 hours ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

381
Wwinter·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

405
Rran_bo·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

404
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

385
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

363
Sswoole_lee·3 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

339
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

313
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

334
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

313
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

302
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

291
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

258
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

255
Ddev_zhouOP·2 days ago

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

185
Oops_wang·2 days ago

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

240
Nnikic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

221
Nnikic·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

207
Sswoole_lee·2 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

5
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

197
Oops_wangMod·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

89
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

207
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

193
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

355
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

188
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

184
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

76
Cchen_devOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

133
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

467
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

166
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

4
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

26
Rrase·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

148
Sslow_query·yesterday

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

151
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

80
Rrase·12 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

135
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

421
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

330
Rrase·just now

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

27
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

502
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

465
Sslow_query·1 hour ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

59
Kkernel_panicOPMod·2 days ago

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

46
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

100
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

96
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

84
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

76
Ddev_zhou·5 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

73
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

35
Sslow_query·2 days agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

31
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

28
Zzhou_yiMod·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

25
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

25
Zzhu_zong·just now

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

18
Kkernel_panic·just now

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

192
Llinlin·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

306
Zzhu_zong·12 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

2
Kkite·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

281
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

225
Aalice_dev·12 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

51
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

139
KkiteOP·yesterday

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

457
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoLevel 6

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

374
Sslow_query·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

215
Wwinter·2 days agoLevel 6

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

367
Kkite·just now

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

62
Bbob_chen·5 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

9
Mmike_xu·12 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

86
Hhuang_ke·2 days agoLevel 6

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

193
Rran_bo·28 minutes agoLevel 6

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

17
Zzhu_zong·2 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

115
Aalice_dev·2 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

16
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

4
Rran_boMod·28 minutes ago

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

2
Cchen_dev·12 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

248
Lli_ming·just now

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

119
Ttang_haoMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

1
Kkite·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

9
Sslow_queryOP·just now

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

184
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

207
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

7
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

388
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

473
LlinlinOP·2 days agoLevel 6

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

413
Oops_wang·2 days ago

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

26
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

371
Ttang_haoOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

25
Ddev_zhou·1 hour agoeditedLevel 6

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

319
Cchen_devOP·2 days agoLevel 6

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

40
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoLevel 6

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

79
Rrase·2 hours ago

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

4
Rrase·2 days ago

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

312
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

45
Rran_bo·2 days ago

This is not a llamaindex-tools problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

328
Rran_boOP·2 days agoLevel 6

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

74
Kkite·2 days agoLevel 6

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

4
Mmike_xu·just now

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

102
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

I just read the llamaindex-tools source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

41
Kkite·28 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

477
Kkernel_panic·2 days agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

327
Aalice_dev·1 hour agoeditedLevel 6

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

122
Mmike_xuMod·2 days ago

One counter-example: below llamaindex-tools 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Nnikic·2 days agoLevel 6

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

126
Aalice_dev·3 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

2
Sswoole_lee·12 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Zzhu_zong·3 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

106
Kkite·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

1

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