HLSL · Performance · hlsl-perf logging: what separates "readable" from "usable"

478
HLr/hlsl-perf·posted by kernel_panic·just nowReview

hlsl-perf logging: what separates "readable" from "usable"

Short version: hlsl-perf needs almost no tuning at small and medium scale — the point where it starts to hurt is much further out than most people assume. Full measurements below.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

-- The query that broke: a full scan over 20M rows.
-- A composite index took P99 from 1.8s down to 42ms.
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  FROM posts
 WHERE community_id = ?
   AND status = 1
 ORDER BY score DESC
 LIMIT 20;

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

We also fixed monitoring along the way: replaced average-based alerts with percentiles and split them per endpoint. False alerts dropped by about seventy percent and the on-call rotation visibly cheered up.

What genuinely surprised me was the tail. The average looked great while P99 jumped by an order of magnitude past some threshold. The cause was not hlsl-perf itself but our upstream connection reuse — the load test traffic was too clean and hid the long-tail requests.

158 comments

158 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Lli_mingOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

462
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

327
Lli_ming·yesterday

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

386
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

327
Mmike_xu·2 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

15
Mmike_xu·12 minutes ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

12
Sslow_query·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

480
Bbob_chenOP·12 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

388
Cchen_devOP·3 minutes agoedited

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

381
Sslow_query·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

491
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

432
Wwinter·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

427
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

365
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

404
Llinlin·3 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

399
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

366
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

148
Wwinter·2 hours agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

57
Sswoole_lee·2 hours ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

171
Nnikic·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

455
Llinlin·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

47
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

49
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

367
Hhuang_ke·1 hour ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

361
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

2
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

347
Rran_bo·5 hours ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

71
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

321
Zzhou_yi·12 minutes ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

308
Lli_ming·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

268
Oops_wangMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

260
Hhuang_ke·28 minutes ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

250
Lli_ming·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

382
Wwinter·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

3
Sslow_query·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

168
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

222
Zzhou_yi·2 hours ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

238
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

243
Zzhou_yiMod·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

157
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

282
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

14
Llinlin·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

12
Hhuang_keOP·28 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

98
Ttang_hao·2 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

348
Llinlin·5 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

68
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

250
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

241
Kkite·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

237
Lli_ming·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

357
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

119
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

146
Nnikic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

205
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

180
Wwinter·12 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

31
Bbob_chen·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

10
Wwinter·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

163
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

103
Cchen_devOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

291
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

445
Rran_boMod·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

157
Wwinter·5 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

3
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

136
Oops_wang·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

121
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

113
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

10
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

109
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

57
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

109
Oops_wang·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

108
Bbob_chen·28 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

88
Kkernel_panic·just now

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

80
Mmike_xu·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

503
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

429
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

314
Kkernel_panicOP·2 days agoedited

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

226
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

107
Kkite·12 minutes ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

65
Ttang_hao·just now

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

7
Llinlin·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Kkernel_panicOP·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

20
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

75
Ddev_zhou·28 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

357
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

74
Kkite·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

73
Bbob_chen·5 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

68
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

67
Aalice_dev·yesterday

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

5
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

238
Nnikic·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

74
Nnikic·yesterday

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

28
Sslow_query·1 hour agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

327
Wwinter·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

269
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

65
RraseOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

226
Lli_mingOP·28 minutes agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

2
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

415
Ddev_zhouOP·12 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

1
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

60
Oops_wang·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

58
Wwinter·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

209
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

50
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

259
Kkite·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

46
Oops_wang·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

42
Lli_ming·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

474
Oops_wang·28 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

35
Kkite·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

34
Cchen_devMod·28 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

31
Oops_wang·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

26
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

13
Bbob_chen·3 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

10
Kkite·2 hours ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

10
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

5
Rrase·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

4
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

3
Sslow_query·3 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

37
Aalice_devMod·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

2
Sslow_query·2 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

1
Ddev_zhou·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

1

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