HLSL · Performance · Two weeks with hlsl-perf: what feels right and what drives me up the wall

1.7K
HLr/hlsl-perf·posted by ops_wang·yesterdayOpen sourcePinnedLocked

Two weeks with hlsl-perf: what feels right and what drives me up the wall

Most hlsl-perf articles stop at "how to use it" and never cover "when not to use it". This is an attempt at the second half.

-- The query that broke: a full scan over 20M rows.
-- A composite index took P99 from 1.8s down to 42ms.
SELECT id, title, created_at
  FROM posts
 WHERE community_id = ?
   AND status = 1
 ORDER BY score DESC
 LIMIT 20;

The first thing was to collapse the variables. We were changing config and upgrading the version at the same time, and afterwards nobody could say which change caused what. We rolled back to moving one variable at a time, re-ran three times, and only then did the curve settle. Tedious, but not skippable.

What genuinely surprised me was the tail. The average looked great while P99 jumped by an order of magnitude past some threshold. The cause was not hlsl-perf itself but our upstream connection reuse — the load test traffic was too clean and hid the long-tail requests.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

We also fixed monitoring along the way: replaced average-based alerts with percentiles and split them per endpoint. False alerts dropped by about seventy percent and the on-call rotation visibly cheered up.

818 comments

818 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

477
Llinlin·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

222
Aalice_dev·just now

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

505
Zzhu_zong·3 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

433
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

163
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

263
Rrase·5 hours ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

6
RraseOP·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

439
Wwinter·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

120
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

118
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

58
Rrase·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

22
Nnikic·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

496
Mmike_xu·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

445
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

428
Rran_bo·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

321
Mmike_xuMod·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

209
Zzhou_yi·5 hours ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

3
Rrase·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

269
Zzhou_yi·2 days agoedited

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

398
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

10
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

396
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

389
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

379
NnikicMod·3 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

371
Wwinter·5 hours ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

345
WwinterOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

169
Kkite·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

88
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

4
Llinlin·1 hour ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

112
Ttang_hao·3 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

327
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

5
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

173
Kkite·2 days agoedited

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

136
Ddev_zhouOP·3 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

246
Lli_ming·2 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Oops_wang·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

300
Kkite·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

270
Cchen_devOP·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

197
Rrase·28 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

241
Sswoole_lee·5 hours agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

100
Aalice_dev·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

196
Bbob_chen·2 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

17
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

331
RraseMod·2 days agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

411
Ttang_hao·2 days agoLevel 6

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

12
Kkite·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

35
Bbob_chen·2 days agoLevel 6

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

91
Sslow_query·2 days agoLevel 6

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

6
Sslow_query·28 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

126
Kkernel_panic·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

32
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

196
Bbob_chenOP·2 days agoeditedLevel 6

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

189
Sslow_queryOP·2 days agoLevel 6

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

125
Sswoole_leeOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

1
Rrase·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

77
Rran_bo·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

73
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

212
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

194
Oops_wangOPMod·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

375
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

90
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

150
LlinlinMod·just now

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

103
Wwinter·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

494
Rran_bo·2 hours agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

76
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

100
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

97
Aalice_dev·just now

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

86
Bbob_chen·2 days agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

97
LlinlinOP·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

10
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

67
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

60
WwinterMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

56
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

9
Wwinter·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

48
Rrase·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

2
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

46
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

I just read the hlsl-perf source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

45
Kkernel_panic·2 hours ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

43
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

36
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

35
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

30
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

64
Kkite·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

30
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

24
Lli_ming·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

16
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

16
Lli_ming·12 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

12
Aalice_devOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

31
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

11
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

9
Bbob_chen·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

5
Hhuang_ke·yesterday

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

4
Lli_ming·2 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

294
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

337
Llinlin·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

7
KkiteMod·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

165
Bbob_chenOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

67
Llinlin·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

22
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

128
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

296
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

66
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

62
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

4
Oops_wang·28 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

2
Nnikic·yesterday

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

8
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

296
Kkernel_panic·28 minutes agoedited

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

39
Rrase·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

149
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

514
Ttang_hao·5 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

231
Kkite·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Cchen_dev·1 hour ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

75
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

One counter-example: below hlsl-perf 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

6
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

71
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

41
Hhuang_ke·2 hours ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

23
Hhuang_ke·just now

This is not a hlsl-perf problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Aalice_dev·2 days agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1

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