CLI Tools · Career · The cli-tools-career execution flow in one diagram (with sequence chart)

351
CTr/cli-tools-career·posted by mike_xu·6 hours agoTooling

The cli-tools-career execution flow in one diagram (with sequence chart)

Short version: cli-tools-career needs almost no tuning at small and medium scale — the point where it starts to hurt is much further out than most people assume. Full measurements below.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

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136 comments

136 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

510
Rran_bo·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

482
Lli_ming·2 days ago

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

475
Hhuang_keOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

481
Nnikic·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

412
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

12
Rran_bo·2 days ago

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

456
Llinlin·2 days ago

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

439
Rran_bo·2 days ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

432
WwinterOP·2 days agoedited

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

360
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

412
Rran_bo·2 hours agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

385
KkiteOP·3 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

269
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

310
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

245
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

144
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

1
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

325
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

129
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

312
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

311
Kkite·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

302
Kkite·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

288
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

283
Wwinter·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

262
Oops_wangMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

242
Oops_wang·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

63
Llinlin·2 days ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Oops_wang·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

237
Nnikic·just now

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

229
Sslow_query·3 minutes ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

54
Lli_ming·just now

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

515
NnikicOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

508
Wwinter·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

329
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

119
Wwinter·2 days agoLevel 6

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

3
KkiteOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

277
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

227
Kkite·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

479
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

131
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

186
Rran_boOP·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

27
Oops_wang·2 days ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

96
Llinlin·2 hours ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

31
Zzhou_yi·5 hours ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

15
Sslow_query·5 hours ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

12
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

121
Bbob_chen·2 days agoeditedLevel 6

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

240
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days agoLevel 6

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

52
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

10
Rrase·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

388
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

39
Ddev_zhou·2 days agoLevel 6

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

287
Rrase·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

9
NnikicMod·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

39
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

54
Sswoole_lee·1 hour ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

7
KkiteOP·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

2
Lli_ming·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

398
Rran_boMod·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

192
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

209
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

209
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

209
Sslow_queryOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

147
Sswoole_lee·just now

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

165
Wwinter·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

148
Rran_bo·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

133
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

132
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

125
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

124
Ddev_zhouMod·2 days ago

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

78
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

54
Rran_boOP·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

46
Ddev_zhou·yesterday

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

31
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

93
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

13
Sswoole_lee·12 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

90
Rrase·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

84
Lli_mingMod·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

68
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

459
Cchen_devOP·3 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1
Zzhu_zong·2 hours ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

54
Wwinter·3 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

42
Rran_bo·yesterday

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

413
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

99
Llinlin·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

263
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

188
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

73
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

23
Oops_wangMod·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

1
Llinlin·12 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

66
Mmike_xu·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

246
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

143
NnikicMod·2 days ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

91
Kkite·2 days ago

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

125
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

34
Lli_ming·2 days ago

I just read the cli-tools-career source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

123
Oops_wang·2 days agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

485
Lli_ming·2 days agoLevel 6

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

456
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

5
Wwinter·2 days ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

34
Llinlin·yesterday

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

10
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

3
RraseOP·12 minutes ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

186
Kkite·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

3
Kkite·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

3
Ttang_hao·28 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

2
Oops_wang·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

133
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

52
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

10
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

One counter-example: below cli-tools-career 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

1
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

4
Mmike_xu·28 minutes ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Llinlin·1 hour ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

This is not a cli-tools-career problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Rran_bo·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

1

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