Burp Suite · Job board · Discussion: is the burpsuite-jobs ecosystem being replaced by another stack?

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BSr/burpsuite-jobs·posted by winter·5 minutes agoInternals

Discussion: is the burpsuite-jobs ecosystem being replaced by another stack?

Short version: burpsuite-jobs needs almost no tuning at small and medium scale — the point where it starts to hurt is much further out than most people assume. Full measurements below.

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

The first thing was to collapse the variables. We were changing config and upgrading the version at the same time, and afterwards nobody could say which change caused what. We rolled back to moving one variable at a time, re-ran three times, and only then did the curve settle. Tedious, but not skippable.

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219 comments

219 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Zzhou_yiMod·1 hour ago

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

462
Nnikic·2 days ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

314
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

479
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

239
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

461
Kkite·2 days ago

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

444
Rrase·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

82
Wwinter·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

437
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

433
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

418
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

504
Rrase·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

9
Nnikic·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

417
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

380
Rran_bo·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

350
Kkite·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

343
Rrase·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

8
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

317
Rran_bo·3 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

353
Zzhu_zongOP·yesterday

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

239
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

122
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

97
Rran_boOP·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

60
Bbob_chenOP·2 days agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

142
Hhuang_keMod·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

315
Rrase·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

312
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

302
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

302
Llinlin·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

299
Lli_ming·5 hours ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

255
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

87
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

240
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

177
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

440
Ddev_zhouOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

165
Sslow_query·28 minutes ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

223
Sswoole_lee·yesterday

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

54
Llinlin·28 minutes ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

3
Aalice_dev·2 days agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

9
Sswoole_lee·5 hours ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

1
Rrase·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

236
Llinlin·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

27
Wwinter·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

51
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

22
Rran_bo·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

212
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

199
Kkite·28 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

194
Kkernel_panic·1 hour ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

173
Sslow_queryOP·1 hour ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

90
Rran_bo·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

146
Llinlin·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

109
Bbob_chenMod·3 minutes agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

81
Ddev_zhou·5 hours ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

37
Mmike_xu·just now

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

81
Bbob_chen·1 hour ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

487
Ddev_zhou·just now

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

89
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

284
Ttang_haoOP·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

30
Kkite·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Nnikic·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

7
Hhuang_keOP·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

9
Aalice_dev·2 days agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

221
Oops_wang·just now

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

33
NnikicOP·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

3
Sslow_query·1 hour ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

14
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

147
Rrase·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

81
Zzhou_yiOP·just now

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

15
Llinlin·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

53
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

8
Rran_bo·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

66
Rrase·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

65
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

2
Ddev_zhouOP·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

1
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

160
Ttang_hao·3 minutes agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

53
WwinterOP·2 days ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Rran_bo·28 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

50
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

214
Lli_ming·yesterday

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

340
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

48
Bbob_chenOP·28 minutes ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Llinlin·just now

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

36
WwinterMod·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

29
Llinlin·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

27
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

27
Ttang_hao·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

24
Nnikic·12 minutes ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

22
Ddev_zhou·5 hours ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

10
Llinlin·yesterday

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

101
Bbob_chen·just now

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

122
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

7
Oops_wang·2 days ago

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

5
Lli_ming·2 days ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

5
Kkite·2 days ago

I just read the burpsuite-jobs source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

4
Lli_ming·2 days ago

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

3
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

7
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

2
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

1
Wwinter·5 hours ago

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

26
Ttang_hao·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

297
Sswoole_lee·just now

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

64
KkiteOP·1 hour ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

16
Rran_boOP·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

440
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

4
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoLevel 6

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

429
Zzhu_zongOP·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

14
Wwinter·2 days ago

This is not a burpsuite-jobs problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

338
Sslow_query·2 days ago

One counter-example: below burpsuite-jobs 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

5
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

3
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Bbob_chenMod·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

187
Oops_wang·2 hours ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

311
Kkernel_panic·yesterday

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

60
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

183
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

128
Kkite·yesterdayedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

212
Llinlin·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

184
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

48
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1

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