App Design · News · Why does app-design-news use twice the memory of comparable tools?

181
ADr/app-design-news·posted by nikic·just nowOpen source

Why does app-design-news use twice the memory of comparable tools?

It took me two weeks of on-and-off digging and plenty of wrong turns. Writing the process down as it happened so the next person spends less time.

We also fixed monitoring along the way: replaced average-based alerts with percentiles and split them per endpoint. False alerts dropped by about seventy percent and the on-call rotation visibly cheered up.

-- The query that broke: a full scan over 20M rows.
-- A composite index took P99 from 1.8s down to 42ms.
SELECT id, title, created_at
  FROM posts
 WHERE community_id = ?
   AND status = 1
 ORDER BY score DESC
 LIMIT 20;

One last trap: in container environments remember to adjust the memory-related parameters in step. Otherwise the host limit and the process expectation disagree, and the symptom is intermittent, unreproducible failure.

On trade-offs, my view is this: if nobody on the team owns this area long-term, do not introduce a second mechanism. With two coexistence you first have to work out which one is even in play when things break, and that costs far more than the performance you saved.

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

52 comments

52 comments

M
Rran_boOP·2 days ago

This is not a app-design-news problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

421
Rrase·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

6
Cchen_dev·5 hours ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

340
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This is not a app-design-news problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

336
Sswoole_lee·2 hours agoedited

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

237
Kkite·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

2
Kkite·2 days ago

I just read the app-design-news source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

216
Ttang_haoOP·2 days agoedited

I just read the app-design-news source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

2
Zzhu_zongOP·yesterday

I just read the app-design-news source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

452
Sswoole_lee·2 hours ago

One counter-example: below app-design-news 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

125
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

433
Hhuang_keOP·3 minutes ago

One counter-example: below app-design-news 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

12
Rran_bo·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

4
Llinlin·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

5
Zzhu_zong·just nowedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

123
Kkernel_panic·1 hour ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

505
Lli_mingOPMod·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

5
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

52
Hhuang_ke·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below app-design-news 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

64
Nnikic·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

107
Aalice_dev·2 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

92
Sslow_query·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

87
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

76
Zzhou_yi·just now

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

72
Mmike_xu·12 minutes agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

165
Hhuang_ke·yesterdayedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

242
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

163
Zzhu_zong·28 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

1
Lli_mingOP·5 hours ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

12
Sswoole_lee·28 minutes ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

69
Lli_ming·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

52
Kkite·just now

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

24
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

22
Sslow_query·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

14
Rrase·yesterday

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

7
Bbob_chen·just nowedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

233
Zzhou_yi·just now

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

6
Mmike_xuOP·12 minutes agoedited

This is not a app-design-news problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

131
Sswoole_lee·1 hour ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

3
Aalice_devMod·3 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

1
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Lli_ming·28 minutes agoedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

93
Zzhou_yi·2 hours ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Rran_bo·1 hour agoedited

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

456
Lli_ming·12 minutes agoedited

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

43
Lli_ming·2 days ago

I just read the app-design-news source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

28
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

6
Hhuang_ke·yesterdayedited

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

183
WwinterOP·2 hours ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

3
Cchen_dev·yesterday

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

1
Bbob_chen·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

3
Rrase·yesterday

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

1

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