Agent · Architecture · After reading the agent-design core source I finally understand the trade-offs

1.9K
AGr/agent-design·posted by bob_chen·yesterdayTooling

After reading the agent-design core source I finally understand the trade-offs

It took me two weeks of on-and-off digging and plenty of wrong turns. Writing the process down as it happened so the next person spends less time.

What genuinely surprised me was the tail. The average looked great while P99 jumped by an order of magnitude past some threshold. The cause was not agent-design itself but our upstream connection reuse — the load test traffic was too clean and hid the long-tail requests.

-- The query that broke: a full scan over 20M rows.
-- A composite index took P99 from 1.8s down to 42ms.
SELECT id, title, created_at
  FROM posts
 WHERE community_id = ?
   AND status = 1
 ORDER BY score DESC
 LIMIT 20;

We also fixed monitoring along the way: replaced average-based alerts with percentiles and split them per endpoint. False alerts dropped by about seventy percent and the on-call rotation visibly cheered up.

The first thing was to collapse the variables. We were changing config and upgrading the version at the same time, and afterwards nobody could say which change caused what. We rolled back to moving one variable at a time, re-ran three times, and only then did the curve settle. Tedious, but not skippable.

Worth noting: the official docs do cover this, just in a very inconspicuous spot. I only found it reading the source comments, where the author explains the reasoning — roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

915 comments

915 comments

· first 120 loaded
M
Oops_wang·3 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

516
Wwinter·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

515
Hhuang_keMod·yesterday

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

500
Nnikic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

414
RraseOP·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

6
Bbob_chen·just now

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

111
Kkite·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

406
Ddev_zhou·1 hour ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

396
Ddev_zhou·12 minutes ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

391
Llinlin·28 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

458
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

390
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

386
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

370
Kkite·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

336
Rrase·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

322
Ddev_zhou·1 hour ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

279
Nnikic·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

1
Wwinter·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

266
Rrase·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

140
Kkite·2 days agoedited

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

200
Nnikic·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

184
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

162
Kkite·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

157
Nnikic·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

153
Cchen_dev·28 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

148
Aalice_devMod·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

147
Bbob_chen·2 days agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

137
Rran_boMod·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

126
Lli_ming·2 days agoedited

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

188
Oops_wangMod·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

64
WwinterOP·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

60
Sslow_query·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

119
Llinlin·2 days agoedited

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

118
Kkite·2 days ago

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

106
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

50
Oops_wang·1 hour ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

38
Lli_ming·12 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

72
Nnikic·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

18
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

431
Hhuang_ke·2 days ago

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

140
Hhuang_ke·2 days agoedited

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

35
Lli_ming·just now

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

31
Wwinter·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

194
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

246
Sslow_query·2 days agoedited

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

3
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

21
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

18
Hhuang_keMod·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

16
Cchen_dev·yesterday

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

13
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

9
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

46
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

5
Ttang_haoMod·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

4
Nnikic·28 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

3
Bbob_chen·28 minutes ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

294
Rrase·2 days ago

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

412
Sslow_query·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

8
Bbob_chen·2 hours ago

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

411
Rrase·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

42
Lli_ming·2 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

158
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

79
Wwinter·3 minutes ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

10
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

50
Oops_wang·2 days ago

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

18
Lli_ming·2 days ago

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

7
Kkite·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

3
Rrase·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

153
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

1
Kkite·28 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

2
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

396
Rran_boMod·just now

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

1
Aalice_dev·3 minutes ago

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

2
Aalice_devOP·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

92
Zzhou_yi·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

355
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

172
Rrase·2 days agoLevel 6

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

473
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoLevel 6

One counter-example: below agent-design 7.4 the semantics of that code are different, so do not copy it verbatim. We got burned in staging and rolled back once.

3
Sswoole_leeMod·2 days ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

247
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

116
Rran_boOP·5 hours ago

Worth learning from this debugging approach. We went straight at the logs and took a much longer route.

25
Nnikic·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

267
Wwinter·2 days agoeditedLevel 6

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

379
Kkernel_panic·2 days agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

361
Sslow_query·2 days agoLevel 6

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

18
Llinlin·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

12
Sswoole_lee·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

2
Kkite·5 hours agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

9
WwinterMod·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

315
Nnikic·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

11
Cchen_devMod·2 days agoLevel 6

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

148
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoLevel 6

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

4
Sswoole_lee·2 days agoedited

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

3
Oops_wang·2 days agoLevel 6

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

56
Llinlin·2 days ago

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

2
Kkernel_panic·3 minutes ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

385
Mmike_xuOP·2 days agoedited

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

57
Zzhu_zong·2 days agoedited

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

5
Sslow_query·2 days ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

53
Kkite·28 minutes ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

1
Ttang_hao·just now

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

312
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

Thanks for sharing real numbers — far more useful than the articles that only cover concepts.

1
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

324
Mmike_xuOP·2 days ago

Saved. I am reworking this area this week — this saves a lot of wrong turns.

109
Mmike_xu·2 days ago

There is actually a simpler fix that needs no architecture change: move this check up to the gateway and the problem disappears. The cost is one extra lookup at the gateway.

8
LlinlinOP·just now

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

212
Zzhu_zong·2 days ago

I see point 3 differently. The trade-off depends on your read/write ratio: read-heavy with little writing means caching actually widens the inconsistency window.

179
Lli_ming·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

61
Wwinter·2 days agoedited

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

52
Oops_wang·2 days ago

Has anyone run a controlled experiment? I did, reducing it to a single variable, and the difference was 4% — within noise. So I suspect the main cause is something else.

162
Aalice_dev·2 days ago

Sharing our numbers, 8 cores 16GB, same scenario:

| Concurrency | P50 | P99 |
|---|---|---|
| 200 | 12ms | 88ms |
| 500 | 31ms | 340ms |

P99 clearly collapses at 500 concurrency, which lines up with your knee point.

371
Kkite·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

172
Cchen_dev·2 days ago

I just read the agent-design source — the author actually explains the reasoning in a comment, roughly "so that it degrades into predictable behaviour in extreme cases".

431
KkiteOP·2 days ago

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

150
Ddev_zhou·2 days ago

A question: what changes in a container with a 512Mi memory limit? That is how we run it in production.

19
Sslow_query·28 minutes ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

185
Kkernel_panic·2 days ago

Can you give a minimal reproduction? I ran it locally for ten minutes and could not reproduce on macOS with the latest version.

5
Kkite·2 days ago

This is not a agent-design problem, it is a usage problem. The docs say this API is not thread-safe and you must lock around it yourself.

151
Sslow_query·12 minutes ago

This matches what we see in production. We only hit it past 3k QPS; the earlier load tests showed nothing — the test traffic was too clean, with no long-tail requests.

1
Llinlin·just now

We have run this in production for two years without hitting it. That said, we never reached this scale, so our experience is not really evidence here.

5
Llinlin·2 days ago

Agreeing with the above. One addition: with this option enabled the GC count in your metrics doubles, so adjust the alert threshold at the same time or it will keep firing.

1

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